Meeting of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with U.S. Religious Leaders

September 27, 2007

On Wednesday, September 26, NETWORK Executive Director Simone Campbell, SSS, and a delegation of about 100 other religious leaders met with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad during his New York visit. These are her notes:

INTRODUCTION—Rev. Ronald Flaming of the Mennonite Central Committee set the conversation in the context of two prior meetings—one in New York in 2006 and one in Tehran in February 2007. He said that those meetings had established the following points:

• The Palestinians suffer and, like the expulsion of Palestinians from their homeland, the Jews in the Holocaust were expelled from their homes. However, things went further with the Jews and there was systematic genocide that can be studied, but must be admitted.

• There have been public threats by the President of Iran to destroy Israel, but privately he has said that there is no military solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

• They called for face-to-face dialogue between the U.S. and Iran and called for an end to using images of enemies when referring to each other. There have been some face-to-face dialogue, but “enemy” language is heightened and visas are being denied by both countries to scholars. We need help in order to increase the person-to-person exchanges.

OPENING STATEMENT—President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:

Humans are made by God to be searchers to the path of perfection. God did not leave humans alone, but gave them talents and wisdom as well as the divine prophets to help show them the way. The prophets were sent by God to teach and cleanse the monotheistic community.

• Adam and Noah prepared the way for Abraham.
• Abraham was invited toward God.
• Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob did the same.
• Moses in the years of hardship was sent to Pharaoh to defend the oppressed.
• Mary was humble before God and was righteous.

Worshiping God is in this tradition and is the right path to shunning tyranny and guiding reform. Serving God is the key to freedom and doing what is called for.

Satan and his disciples have prevented the message of the prophets from being fully heard. Cain and his followers from the beginning have been a source of going astray. In this day the management of the impious is under serious constraint.

Has God forsaken humanity? There is a promise of a bright future. True knowledge will be revealed. The coming of that day, the God of the Universe will come in a large caravan everywhere. The solution to evil is to follow the prophets.

The Prophets call us to try to remove social injustice and bring rights from the message of religion and the fight against evil. We need to be rid of ruinous thought. As we worship God, we cannot be silent in the face of invasion and war. Today we need to place our hands in that of right and justice and to prepare the ground to universalize the message of the Prophets.

We believe in the day when there will be no sign of the struggle for security on earth. Scholars and believers endeavor to create the world in the Word of God. The World is moving in this direction. We are gathering together in closeness and unity. We are called to believe in the Savior and to show compassion and seek goodness. This new path is a path out of deadlock and suffering. The Prophets invite the people to hope.

Ms. Mary Ellen McNish, General Secretary, American Friends Service Committee—Please be public about your position on the issue of the Holocaust and the existence of the state of Israel.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad—We have had conversations both here and in Iran. We seek peace and brotherhood. Iran has not attacked anyone and we have upheld the rights of individuals. We defend ourselves. Our infrastructure was destroyed in the war with Iraq, but we forgave our aggressors as soon as it was over. Now we welcome in the Iraqi refugees.

The fate of the group of Jewish people was a response of hate and killing. This is like the fate of the Palestinian people. Death is death. Hate created a war where 80 million people lost their lives. And then the Jewish people came to Palestine. We need to find a solution to this 60-year-old question. Human rights scholars in Europe need to study these issues and all issues. What is wrong with studying the issue? Where did the Holocaust happen?

There were two forms of displacement—the Palestinians were moved out of their homes and the Jewish people were moved from Europe and put in the homeland of others. Today we should have the self-determination of the Palestinian people. The USSR was destroyed not by war so the Palestinians should be able to choose for themselves.

Dr. Glen Stassen, Professor of Christina Ethics at Fuller Seminary—Can we envision a peace process without preconditions? How can we move that forward. We see Iran’s military parade with 1000 km missiles and also its nuclear enrichment.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad—Who does the world need to be deeply concerned about—the Iranians or the U.S.? The U.S. has missiles that can go 12,000 km. Who is the real danger here? Who has declared that they have nuclear weapons? We have not expressed a concern about it, but those who have the bomb are the ones that are concerned. The IAEA agrees with us and we just express our views. There is psychological warfare to create fear in our hearts. We should be afraid of them but they say they are afraid of us. Isn’t there a big lie somewhere that needs to be uncovered? For 28 years we have been sanctioned and suffered. But who told the U.S. government it is responsible for world peace? Tell the U.S. to stop interfering in the region. Talks that are constructive have to demonstrate fairness and a willingness to follow international law. We have met and talked about Iraq, but there has been no movement toward peace on the part of the U.S.

Fr. Drew Christiansen, Editor, America Magazine— America has acknowledged its errors, how would you see the failings of Iran, and where are you striving to change?

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad—We must accept our mistakes—that is important, but we must also say that we will not do it again. If someone apologizes but does not change behavior there is no path to mutual understanding. All religious groups are welcomed to Iran. We support such talks. When we look at the world there are many shortcomings. We are at the beginning of the path and have a clear view of the road ahead in Iran. But we have been hurt by the prior regime and are trying to compensate for that. The region has troubles and there continues to be interference and pressure of others on our region’s members. But we work toward peace and responsibility. Our people have gone through a lot of suffering and now we have more than 3 million refugees in Iran. It is a heavy burden.

Rev. Dr. Karen Hamilton, Executive Secretary, Canadian Council of Churches—In Canada we have had dialogue with the Iranian consulate. Do you hear about it? How do you and your government work for the needs of the poor?

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: I am aware of some cultural exchanges and I will support any that I know about. On the issue of poverty, we must eradicate it on two levels.

First, we must eradicate the examples of illness, diseases, hunger. We do this by working with NGOs and Iranian groups dedicated to this. We have produced AIDS/HIV medication and are offering it to others at only our end costs. Iran offers free services around the world and joins groups to eradicate poverty at this level.

Second, at a higher level, we must eradicate the root causes of poverty. The resources of the world are not infinite. If we see absolute poverty somewhere, then we see that someone’s rights have been violated. It is a question of human rights. If a tree has sick roots it will produce bad fruit. We must fix the root causes of the illness. Iran is willing to share this project with all those who share this concern.

Rev. Chris Ferguson, Representative to the UN, Commission of the Churches on International Affairs—Could you share your fears with us? You call for human rights and struggle against tyranny, but there are serious human right violations in Iran. Can we talk about where Iran is falling short?

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: My personal fears and concerns are similar to yours. I see poverty and discrimination, wars and hatred, and that saddens us. We are prevented from moving on the sublime path utilizing human talents by these hatreds. These concerns cannot be solved by war. War creates fear in our own nations and this saddens me. Countries that do not follow their duties sadden me.

On the issue of human rights, it is a relative thing. We do not have a clear standard in the United Nations to measure it. It is a multilayered definition. We believe that we should work for a unified definition and then help to implement it. As a general response, in Iran we have criteria for human rights that we have implemented highly. The President is like any other citizen before the law and the judicial system. There are no differences based on role. In our parliament, religious minorities have guaranteed representation. Ordinarily there is one representative for every 150,000 persons. But all Assyrians (who only number about 5,000) have one representative. Others represent a million people but only have one representative. So our country is more than Moslems, and we all feel that we are doing well with our representation.

CONCLUSION: President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad—We need more time for conversation. Islam is not an ideological theory but a way of life. It has a social structure to it and every thing is supplementary to it. Come to Tehran so that we can continue this conversation.

MY REFLECTIONS ON THE EXPERIENCE: Simone Campbell, SSS

• I know so little about Iranian culture, and I sense that the rest of our country is the same. I was amazed at the religious/theological context for the dialogue that was presented. After conversation with others who have more experience than I, it seems that the President got elected as a populist, but now he is having to move in academic circles. Learning has been respected in the Persian culture for thousands of years. Apparently academic disputation is highly valued in Iran. He is not adept at doing this and is a bit insecure about it.

• The President of Iran gains support in Iran when he is “attacked” by the United States, and President Bush gains at home when he demonizes the Iranian President. This plays well for both administrations in their domestic political struggles. Neither has an incentive to change the dynamic.

• In discussion following, I learned that the major religious leaders are the true leaders of Iran, and the President is actually quite far down on the power list. However, the U.S. administration keeps dealing with him as if he held the title in the same way as in the U.S. I understand that this is being dismissive of the religious leaders. Therefore, while they might not agree with President Ahmadinejad’s rhetoric, they are not moving to curb him

• Of his comments—I think I was most touched by his comments about poverty and how where there is absolute poverty there is a denial of someone’s human rights.

• Some of the questions asked were so culturally contained in an effort to connect at the human level, e.g. his fears, failings in Iran, etc. I don’t know how we get around this, but it seems unrealistic to expect him (or anyone from another culture) to respond to our U.S. human expectations of “bonding.”